The body is not static. Neither is identity. In this episode of Why We Dance, host Mia Tate sits down with boundary-pushing artist and performer Viktoria Modesta for a conversation about movement, agency, and the ongoing act of becoming beyond fixed definitions of the body.
The body is not static. Neither is identity.
In this episode of Why We Dance, Mia Tate welcomes Viktoria Modesta for a bold and expansive conversation about movement as authorship, creativity as survival, and the freedom found in refusing fixed forms.
Viktoria shares her early life in Latvia and the medical challenges that shaped her relationship with her body from a young age. She reflects on immigrating to the UK and immersing herself in London’s underground and fashion subcultures—spaces that gave her permission to imagine herself differently and to design her own visual language.
The conversation moves into Viktoria’s decision to advocate for amputation at fifteen, not as an act of loss, but of self-determination. She speaks candidly about reclaiming agency through choice, and how movement and performance became tools for rewriting narratives around beauty, disability, and power.
Viktoria also discusses her recent recovery period and the innovative ways she integrated AI into her creative process—exploring how technology, healing, and imagination intersect. Together, Mia and Viktoria examine the relationship between science and spirituality, alternative body architecture, and why evolving the body is inseparable from evolving the self.
This episode is a meditation on becoming—on embracing transformation, honoring curiosity, and choosing movement as a way forward.
About the Guest
Viktoria Modesta is a boundary-defying performance artist and musician known for reimagining the body as a site of authorship rather than limitation. Born in Latvia and based in the UK, she gained global recognition as a “bionic pop artist,” blending avant-garde fashion, music, and alternative body architecture to challenge conventional ideas of beauty and identity. Her work spans performance, technology, and embodied practice, exploring transformation, agency, and the art of becoming.
Episode Timestamps:
(00:00) Empowerment Through Creativity and Self-Design
(01:04) Meet Viktoria Modesta: The Bionic Pop Artist
(02:16) Early Life, Disability, and Medical Challenges
(07:25) Immigration, London Subculture, and Identity Formation
(09:29) Choosing Amputation and Reclaiming Body Autonomy
(14:46) The Power of Dance, Movement, and Embodiment
(20:47) Breakthrough Performances and Creative Transformation
(26:34) Imagination as Resistance and Reinvention
(29:55) Small Shifts, Big Personal Evolution
(30:16) Posture, Recovery, and Physical Realignment
(31:13) Resilience, Body Awareness, and Strength
(32:06) Curiosity, Reinvention, and Lifelong Learning
(32:30) Movement, Fashion, and Avant-Garde Expression
(34:55) Innovative Healing and Alternative Body Architecture
(37:53) AI, Technology, and Creative Recovery
(42:11) Embodied Cognition, Science, and Spirituality
(50:57) Future Vision, Advocacy, and Sharing Knowledge
(56:31) Universal Truths, Identity, and Final Reflections
Links & Resources:
Mia Tate’s IMDb
Viktoria Modesta
Subscribe and Follow Why We Dance on YouTube and Instagram
Podcast Producer S.J. Nichols (Seannon Gonzalez)
Executive Producer Meredith Gooderham
Production Studio Caspian Studios
Camera Operator Kai Irvine
Assistant Camera Ben Drummond
Production also by Dark to Light Productions
Thank you to Davies Reid Rugs
[00:00:00] Viktoria Modesta: I had to find a way to feel good about myself and feel empowered, and I had to find a way to support that because the medical lens of looking at my body really was depressing and terrible. And at the time it just seemed like, well, I shouldn't be doing this, and there's no one doing anything creative and dah, dah, dah.
And it was just this big kind of stumping block. So in a way, culture, culture of fashion, movement, dance expression just was like, oh, I see. I'm like, this is where you take whatever you've got and you create your own version. You play with it.[00:01:00]
[00:01:04] Mia Tate: Today on Why We Dance, we are joined by Victoria Modesta. This woman is an incredible artist, the Future. She's a singer, dancer, cultural icon, known as the world's first bionic pop artist. She fuses music, fashion, and futuristic prosthetics to reimagine everything, including traditional ideas of beauty and disability.
Please help me welcome Victoria.
[00:01:35] Viktoria Modesta: Hello, hello, hello. Thanks. Thanks for having me.
[00:01:39] Mia Tate: Oh, I'm so glad you're here. I, um, we'll get into everything, but I found you through Crazy Horse. Through your cabaret. You did. And I was like, what? I have to be this woman.
[00:01:58] Viktoria Modesta: You know, sometimes I look, [00:02:00] I look back on that show and I think the same thing.
I was like, wow. I'm like remembered that transformation that you did for that duration of time when you became the bionic showgirl. Yeah.
[00:02:14] Mia Tate: Oh, that is so fantastic. I start this show with the same question for everyone, and so I wanna ask you, what does movement mean to you?
[00:02:25] Viktoria Modesta: Oh gosh. You know, I've, I've been, I, since I've heard about this, uh, documentary, I've thought so much about it.
And for me, movement has been such a dramatic thing where I spent a lot of my time not being able to move. Right. I've had a lot of medical recoveries. I've had a lot of transitions from going from biological leg to prosthetic leg. And so movement for me is [00:03:00] so intentional and, and I really see it as like a language, a way to express myself, you know, from walking into a room and commanding presence mm-hmm.
To stroking my dog with love and affection, to, you know, wearing something sculptural and feeling what it's like to have a, an alternative body silhouette.
[00:03:31] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:03:32] Viktoria Modesta: Like, it's, it's a, it's a big playground for me. It's a lot of experimentation.
[00:03:38] Mia Tate: Mm. Oh God. I love that intention of every part of the physicality you just mentioned.
Through movement. I've always said for me that movement dance is presence. It's, it's one place where it's just absolute presence for me. It's just right then.
[00:03:55] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah.
[00:03:57] Mia Tate: Yeah. So can [00:04:00] you kind of go to the beginning for us, for the audience, so they get your story, the story. I know when I went into all the rabbit holes that I could find of you, um, starting at the beginning where you grew up and then you were born with a, um, mal, like, what was it, what did they call it?
Medical negligence. Can you kind of tell us a little bit about that? The be the kind of structure of your story before we go into all the stuff you're doing now?
[00:04:30] Viktoria Modesta: Sure. Yeah. Well, I was born, uh, right at the tail end of USSR. Mm-hmm. In labia and, uh, to a very young mother. And, um, I. Moved too much in my mother's, um, stomach as I was about to come out.
I twisted and turned and got myself wrapped in the umbilical cord and was coming out sideways. Mm-hmm. So, um, I just [00:05:00] had kind of like an accident during birth where they pulled me out by my arm and my leg. And so it was kind of a dramatic start. And, uh, also this was like the heart of eugenics too. So my mother didn't see me for five days and she was just like, where is my baby?
And they were like, you, you wanna see her? Like, we thought we would just send her off to an orphanage, you know? So that was like, that was the start.
[00:05:31] Mia Tate: Wow.
[00:05:32] Viktoria Modesta: That was the start. And, um. Yeah. And so, and I had had a plaster cast first thing when I was born and, and, uh, it damaged my leg. So by the time I was, uh, like six, my leg was shorter, my leg was shorter, and I was just so full of life and energy.
Mm-hmm. And you would re, you know, I never, my energy was always just like a [00:06:00] firecracker, like really confident and really just, I wanna do everything, you know? Mm-hmm. So this leg has always been very interesting. So, you know, at first it was shorter than I endured many, many corrective surgeries, like from age six till 12.
And, and that was, you know, so, um. Shaping for me as an adult, huge. 'cause, you know, because the time when everybody was running around and
[00:06:29] Mia Tate: yeah.
[00:06:30] Viktoria Modesta: Playing at a playground at school, I would frequently stay in a hospital for three months at a time, four months at a time. 'cause back, back then, like you'd, you didn't leave the hospital.
Like you would just stay in the hospital, you know? And so, very interesting time because then I just, I, I did what I did what, uh, a lot of happens to people who have like a reduced sort of, uh, environment and mobility where I just developed a really
[00:06:59] Mia Tate: mm-hmm. [00:07:00]
[00:07:00] Viktoria Modesta: Um, vivid in a world. Mm-hmm. Right. It was fueled by Disney, by fairytales.
It was very imaginative and loved music. And, you know, I just. I, I think I learned to feel fully alive and functioning, even though I was so static in a way with my body. Mm-hmm. Um, and so that kind of went on, you know, up until I was 12, and then we immigrated to UK with my parents hoping for better future, for me, for better medical care.
And, and then when we, so we moved from one extreme of hospitals to London and I just, you know, I was so far removed from like, normality that, um, I found myself seeking a different environment. I mean, school for me [00:08:00] was like an unbearable place. Like I just, I just, um, you know, I felt so different. And so by the time I was in my early teens, I found myself, um.
At the sub, at the scene of Subculture of London, which in many ways was like the adult version of Disney, where, you know, it was no longer the Cinderella with her slipper and the, you know, having a magic wand. But it was adults who used like every form of self-expression to transform their bodies, their lifestyle, their, you know, their energy, the way they interacted, like alternative lifestyle just seemed so interesting to me.
And, you know, it was also, uh, very helpful because there was a lot of [00:09:00] smoke and mirrors and I really felt like I could just focus on who I feel like versus. This more medicalized version of like how I had to look at my body, you know?
[00:09:14] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:09:15] Viktoria Modesta: Um,
[00:09:15] Mia Tate: be before I go into this whole new that you create, which I love, um, just because I think it's so profound as you said, this kind of character time.
So what age were you? So when you decided this leg was only holding you back all the in and outta surgery, um, how old were you when you started advocating
[00:09:39] Viktoria Modesta: to I
[00:09:39] Mia Tate: was
[00:09:39] Viktoria Modesta: barely 15.
[00:09:41] Mia Tate: You were barely 15. You're in London. You're barely 15. You were, are you, is this when you're in school, just so I can kind of picture you as a 15-year-old, so mm-hmm.
Are you in school? I've, I read some, there's some bullying you don't fit in. I mean, you've lived in this creative [00:10:00] other world and I mean. You're so beyond 15 with what you've endured that I can imagine you would absolutely not fit in, you know?
[00:10:12] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah.
[00:10:13] Mia Tate: Which so many people on our show actually, I mean, I keep going back to this, this bullying because all these people with these strong existences that have, uh, you know, see that look outside the box, you know, there's a, there's a thread there that comes to this bullying because we so want, you know, it's so scary for kids to see people kind of living in their own fullness.
So you dealt with bullying, is that right?
[00:10:42] Viktoria Modesta: I did. I did. Yeah. And you know, it's interesting 'cause in the end, like I, I didn't have, I didn't spend that many years in school overall. Okay. Um, and I would, I think, I wanna say maybe I went to school for like a year and a half, once we moved to uk. [00:11:00] Um, and, you know, I think.
The biggest danger in all of this situation is the kind of rigidity that's placed mm-hmm. By parents, by society. Right. There's just like, you know, and, and I really saw that firsthand back in Eastern Europe, right? I mean
[00:11:19] Mia Tate: mm-hmm.
[00:11:19] Viktoria Modesta: That kind of rigidity, that anything threatens the, um, the i the identity, right?
Mm-hmm. The beauty standards, et cetera. Uh, it kind of, you know, it's, it's provokes a really strong reaction. So when I started going to school, you know, I would. Be around children and people my age. And then the weekend I would, you know, try to get myself into these worlds where much older people were.
Mm-hmm. Where I felt totally fine. Mm-hmm. I'm like, there's nothing wrong with me. You know? And then I would come home, uh, or I would go back to school, you know, and I would have like, [00:12:00] you know, a 9-year-old throw something at me and tell me that I'm Cruella Deville, you know? And I was just like, how does this, yeah.
You know, how do, how does this work? How so, you know, and I was very lucky that I had a very, um, a very creative, supportive mother that, you know, she just took me out of school. Yeah. She was just like, we're gonna like figure this out. You know? And
[00:12:23] Mia Tate: I read a lot about your mom. She's quite the support system for you.
[00:12:27] Viktoria Modesta: Oh yeah. Yeah. She is. She is. It's. Yeah. It's been, it's, it's been a blessing. Like we've, we've, we've, our relationship has evolved and matured in so many ways over the years. It's, it's very nice. Um, so, you know, so that whole school period and then leaving school
[00:12:45] Mia Tate: mm-hmm.
[00:12:46] Viktoria Modesta: Um, that's kind of, so I, I would say around 14, I, that's when I started really, um, coming across a lot more avant-garde performance work.
[00:12:59] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:12:59] Viktoria Modesta: [00:13:00] And, you know, things like Alexander McQueen, Matthew Barney, just like more left field avant-garde mm-hmm. Uh, kind of stuff. And you know, and I think I've just always been very fascinated with ways of like, exercising personal power.
[00:13:20] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:13:22] Viktoria Modesta: Like it seems. That once you acknowledge that that is something that you can do mm-hmm.
Then you simply lay out the tools, you know, you lay out the tools and you kind of, you know, you, you, you start looking at things a little bit more intentionally. I don't know exactly how, uh, clear things were for me at the time then, but I do know that I was really driving on instinct at the time, and to me it just seemed like okay, I'm like, I [00:14:00] had to find a way to feel good about myself and feel empowered, and I had to find a way to support that because the medical lens
[00:14:16] Mia Tate: mm-hmm.
[00:14:16] Viktoria Modesta: Of looking at my body. Really was depressing and terrible. And at the time it just seemed like, well, I shouldn't be doing this, and there's no one doing anything creative and dah, dah, dah. And it was just this big kind of stumping block. So in a way, culture, culture of fashion, movement, dance expression just was like, oh, I see.
I'm like, this is where you take whatever you've got and you create your own version. You play with it. Um, you know, and even just my early, um, you know, experiences with sneaking into raves.
[00:14:54] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:14:54] Viktoria Modesta: You know, I mean, that was so formative. Like, I remember for, [00:15:00] I was trying to think, I was like, when did the whole dance thing, like become part, because, you know, I'm, I'm not a trained dancer, right?
Mm-hmm. And for me, like. I've never seen it as a discipline per se, but probably from the age of like 15. You know, I remember going into raves and just these really extravagant outfits and I would always find myself on a podium somewhere, you know, just kind of just, just having the best time. So I think, you know, it's, it's, it's always, but actually rewind back a little bit.
Mm-hmm. Um, the most, the most vivid dance experience that I can remember is when I was 11 and I started listening to Prodigy. Mm. It was my first band I've ever liked
[00:15:58] Mia Tate: Uhhuh.
[00:15:58] Viktoria Modesta: It was my first record that I bought [00:16:00] and when my mom wasn't at home, whatever, we had a Hi-Fi and I would just turn it on. And I would just like dance and jump to it.
Like, until I would just like fall on the floor.
[00:16:15] Mia Tate: Oh, I love that. I love
[00:16:18] Viktoria Modesta: it. You know, that little, little punk energy that was kind of just bored in me where I was like, okay, okay. There is, you know, and it, and it always, always fascinated me. You know, I think that what, once you start looking at later iterations of, you know, my career, um, you know, people sometimes describe it as very bold, you know?
Mm-hmm. Or there's a bit of darkness, whatever, you know. But I think, I think that was my first embodied experience of, um, you know, a more, um, I don't even know what the right word is, but like, um, a more [00:17:00] dynamic, hard electronic music that was like a force, right? Like a channel. Um. And it's always fascinated me, you know, like people get scared of, of that energy sometimes, or people get scared of that kind of aggressive energy of music.
But I think for me, as a little girl in Latvia who spent most of my time in a hospital that was like, I was like, wow. I was like, it felt positive, you know? Yeah. So, so I, I, I think throughout my life I always return to this statement where like, positivity does not have to be mellow and tape, right? It does not need to be right because.
Like, everything that's negative is so intense. I'm like, all right. I'm like, let's meet it with intensity.
[00:17:52] Mia Tate: Right?
[00:17:52] Viktoria Modesta: Let's meet it right here. Let's make, let's like, let's, let's get a dagger of
[00:17:57] Mia Tate: Yes.
[00:17:58] Viktoria Modesta: Good vibes.
[00:17:59] Mia Tate: You just see [00:18:00] one of my questions because it is, it's all in your creation. You know? You're like, look, I'm not shying away from the dark.
We're going the shadow side just to the light side. You know, you play with that so beautifully. Like it makes it richer because you're willing to do both. You know? It doesn't surprise me that that was your inspiration.
[00:18:20] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah. Yeah. That was, um, it's, um, you know, I've had a lot of times in my life where people were like, wow, that was very, um, brave.
You know? But actually I think that some of those really early experiences, I feel like were the bravest for me. Yeah. You know, like, um, 'cause. It's, it's much, it's much easier. It's much harder to make those decisions when you're like in an environment where, you know, being different is like,
[00:18:55] Mia Tate: well, when you break, very challenging.
What about the moment? I mean, didn't it take you five [00:19:00] years? I read to talk the doctors into amputating your leg. I mean, I don't know, bold, brave. Is there a bigger word I can find? I mean that's, yeah. That's so powerful that you were your advocate to take back your body in this way, to find this kind of freedom of movement that I've read with you.
[00:19:22] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's interesting because I, you know, I think about that moment often and like, um. I, I feel like I've been blessed with being in touch with my intuition and like my survival instincts and stuff, because each time I had to do something, which then later looks like it was a really huge decision.
Actually. It always comes from a place of like, it's not even a decision. Mm. Like I [00:20:00] know that I do not accept the present reality.
[00:20:04] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:20:05] Viktoria Modesta: Right. And, and it's like, what can I do about it and what is out of my control? And as long as it's under, under my, under my control, I will revisit it no matter how bananas it is.
I look at it. Yeah. Step
[00:20:20] Mia Tate: out of,
[00:20:21] Viktoria Modesta: right,
[00:20:22] Mia Tate: yeah. Step out of this construct. Right. Like, I mean
[00:20:26] Viktoria Modesta: totally.
[00:20:26] Mia Tate: Just, just step out.
[00:20:28] Viktoria Modesta: Totally. And you know, and I, I don't know where that comes from. I'm like, you know, blessed. Like my husband is always just like, oh, that's it. You know, you're like, I've already imagined it.
I've already lived it. I'm like, yep, I'm there. I'm like, let's just catch the physical reality up to that moment that I've already seen happen. You know? Yeah. Um, so, you know, but it was, you know, one of the things that, um, is encapsulated in the prototype video, which I later [00:21:00] released as the result of that.
Yes. It's stunning journey.
[00:21:04] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:21:05] Viktoria Modesta: Is the energy that accumulated while I was in this moment of like suffering and feeling like. Uh, it was such a, it was so potent. It was like, I felt like I was fighting for like, justice. I, I was fighting for myself to have a place, you know, I was, um, really working hard to overcome the physical discomfort that I was in.
And, you know, I wanted, I wanted the Disney narrative to be true. Like I wanted to find that moment, when do I get to transform so that I'm encouraging less hardship and more like thriving. And, you know, when I eventually worked my way up to shooting [00:22:00] the prototype spike dance, like I left everything on the dance floor.
Mm-hmm. Like we were, you know, I was suspended on the harness and the spike leg. Was, you know, we just, we just made that, and everything felt so new and so surreal.
[00:22:23] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:22:24] Viktoria Modesta: And we were shooting that scene until I literally like, cried. And I was like, okay. I was like, we have to stop, like, drop me right now.
And like, we dropped me and I was like, on the floor just Wow. Breathing for, you know, breathing and crying and just feeling like, yeah. You know, and, and it's, you know, it's, it's hard to explain. So when you ask me like, what movement means to me, you know, it's really hard to encapsulate it with words because I've, I've been lucky enough to have a few opportunities in my life [00:23:00] where I moved.
Like my life depended on it. Hmm. But really, truly,
[00:23:07] Mia Tate: yeah.
[00:23:07] Viktoria Modesta: You know, the time that I shot prototype and I felt like. Like, if this doesn't break, open some kind of a path forward, then like, I don't know what is, you know?
[00:23:22] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:23:22] Viktoria Modesta: Or when I, or when I, um, danced for the, uh, paralympic closing ceremony
[00:23:27] Mia Tate: mm-hmm.
[00:23:28] Viktoria Modesta: In the diamond prosthetic, you know, I had three weeks leading up to the show where I was the only, um, I was the only, uh, performer who has transitioned my, you know, uh, my mobility issue into this like
mm-hmm.
[00:23:49] Viktoria Modesta: Cinderella moment, right? Right. Like, I stepped out with a diamond and crusted prosthetic with these diamond shoes and outfit at front of like 90,000 people in the [00:24:00] stadium. And I just remember like, you know, just knowing I'm like, this is so different. Like, I just, you know, you just. You kind of aware that Yeah.
A moment has happened that, you know, breaking through, like no. Yeah. There's, there's a breaking through. Um, and, you know, it's, um, it's, it's really like, kind of, I feel blessed sometimes, like, you know, yeah. Because I think that those moments have given me so much feeling of purpose and feeling of like, I don't know how, but my, my discomfort and belief that there's a better alternative for, for, for the suffering is somehow powerful enough that like the perfect [00:25:00] storm gets created for these creative moments.
You know? And I talk to people from those periods sometimes, and I'm like, oh, we all just like. It is like the ti the, the, the, the, the, the ti the the rules of time changed or something. Like it was really special. Yeah.
[00:25:18] Mia Tate: When you have those breakthrough moments, when you have that collapse on the floor at prototype, or when you step off that stage with your studded prosthetic, where do you feel it in your body?
[00:25:33] Viktoria Modesta: Oh, I think I'm just, I'm always so, just completely just the most present you can possibly imagine. It's like so open, so unguarded, so you know, one with the universe, one with the people, you know, be, and uh, I think in many ways, you know, it was, [00:26:00] it was a way to get like a very altered state that. You know, people get through, you know, taking ayahuasca or, you know, jumping over parachute, you know, it's, it's that transformative.
Yeah.
[00:26:14] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:26:15] Viktoria Modesta: Um, usually just completely exhausted, like in the best way possible.
[00:26:20] Mia Tate: Yeah. I love that. Wow. Okay. I am seeing where I am here. I just wanna hear you talk. Um, I think part of that is this great quote I read of yours that I loved. Imagination is the only weapon against reality.
[00:26:38] Viktoria Modesta: Oh, it's been a minute since I've heard that.
I'm gonna write that down. Oh, it's, remember, that's so
[00:26:47] Mia Tate: Yes. Right.
[00:26:49] Viktoria Modesta: I need that right now. Yeah,
[00:26:52] Mia Tate: that's right.
[00:26:54] Viktoria Modesta: That is is, I mean, it's, it's true. It's, it's so true. [00:27:00] Um. It really is true. And I think, I think some of the, sort of the, some of the toughest moments in my life have been where, you know, being perhaps around an environment of people or whatever situation where imagination is lacking because you know, that's, that's when you're stuck.
[00:27:22] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:27:23] Viktoria Modesta: So, uh, imagination is everything. Yes. Yeah.
[00:27:28] Mia Tate: And when you do kind of see, and you. And you go over, you transcend the over story and you decide how you want. I just, I kept just getting so inspired the more I would listen to you speak or read some of the things you said, because we are the creator of our reality, and you have this way of using your strength and creativity in just a really exciting way that you do that.
It's like, yeah, what I mean, okay, what do I wanna do? I mean, like, [00:28:00] I gotta change my look, I gotta do all this. I mean, it's just, it's so fun this game of life, right?
[00:28:06] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah. Yeah. It's fun. It's fun. And, and it's interesting, like, um, in my more recent years, I've, I've been, you know, paying more attention to people around me and just noticing how sometimes people just don't realize that they have a choice.
[00:28:25] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:28:26] Viktoria Modesta: Right. And it's like. And I've had that with, you know, like even my mom or you know, friends where, you know, like every, like our whole reality is created to just keep us really, really believing that we are just in this like rigid, like little train track that we're just plowing along, you know? And, and change is so easy and so powerful where, and I think that, you know, [00:29:00] it's almost like a muscle that you mm-hmm.
[00:29:03] Mia Tate: You
[00:29:03] Viktoria Modesta: kind of have to engage with. And, and I'm, I'm definitely guilty of really experimenting and pushing that because I'm always just like, wow. I was like, you know, what do I need to do to just totally just like. Just snap out of this. Like, what is it, you know, do I need to, do I need to change my schedule, like my diet?
Do I need to engage with different types of people? Mm-hmm. You know, uh, do the thoughts that I, you know, allowed to feed my body. What, how are they infecting me? You know, what's happening? It's like, it's this constant sort of reevaluation and, you know, I always do it to kind of, you know, to a little bit of, you know, to to, to a radical level.
But I think for many people is like, you know, they often just [00:30:00] don't realize that there is a choice. And even in their, even in the exact same circumstances, small changes will just yield a totally different life. Mm-hmm. Totally different attitude towards their body. Mm-hmm. And, um. My mother-in-law is currently who I'm with is recovering from, uh, a cardiac arrest and
[00:30:23] Mia Tate: scary,
[00:30:24] Viktoria Modesta: very scary and new surgery.
And I've been spending a few days with her and, you know, she's on a walker and like, and we're looking at her posture and everything, and I'm just like, you know, she gets on it and I'm just like, and I'm just like, Hey, just like, look up, look up at me. Mm-hmm.
[00:30:44] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:30:45] Viktoria Modesta: Right. Invite, invite her to get back in the room and look around the room.
And her entire posture just changes instantly. Yeah. And I'm just like, wow. And I'm like, [00:31:00] and every day she's getting more and more confident, more and more open. Like her heart is open instead of She's breathing deeper.
[00:31:06] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:31:07] Viktoria Modesta: She's breathing deeper, you know, and it's, I think that. You know, whenever my body has like, come to a place where I'm just like, wow, we are hitting the ceiling here and I really need to do something about it.
[00:31:24] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:31:24] Viktoria Modesta: Um, it's always, it always amazes me how if you just alter a little bit of methods, like your body's so resilient, you can just keep going. You can just keep evolving, keep, there's like, it's, it's never like too late really for anything.
[00:31:44] Mia Tate: Yeah. I love that. Uh, one of my questions was, um, what would you tell people about like limited limiting beliefs and it, and you've already answered that in that way of like, you know, it's your choice, you know, take action.
Do [00:32:00] this is yours.
[00:32:02] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah, definitely. You know, and I think, um. One of the things that's really helped me is, you know, staying, um, forever, staying, uh, curious and Yeah. And educating myself, right? Yeah. 'cause I think there is, you're never, you're never at the end, you're never finished learning about what could make your life better and what could make your body healthier.
And, and I always, I always think of movement, like, I think about of, of fashion because I remember back in the day, people would be like, oh, you know, I dunno anything about fashion. I, I'm not part of fashion. And I'm like, you put on clothes in your back. Mm-hmm. You are part of fashion.
[00:32:47] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:32:47] Viktoria Modesta: You know, and with movement too is like, it's, it's everything.
Movement. Everything is our energy. You know, the way we, the way we interact with objects, the way [00:33:00] we hold ourselves, like.
[00:33:03] Mia Tate: The way we decide to heal. Like your mother-in-law looking up and bringing it back up into the room.
[00:33:09] Viktoria Modesta: Yes, yes. And, um, it's, it's so powerful, you know? Um, yeah,
[00:33:20] Mia Tate: it is so powerful. Um, you have a saying, and I, I love this one too, that you're the architect of your own body.
And I feel like that kind of feeds into this creativity of yours too. But you take it even further into this game of fashion and play. And as I know right now, you're healing a bit re recovering and I love, I have
[00:33:47] Viktoria Modesta: just got off my cane.
[00:33:48] Mia Tate: Oh, congratulations. That,
[00:33:51] Viktoria Modesta: yeah. Uh,
[00:33:52] Mia Tate: that must have been a big moment.
[00:33:56] Viktoria Modesta: Oh yeah.
I mean, honestly, I, I don't know. Uh, you know, [00:34:00] I think it's not common for somebody to have to relearn to walk twice, uh, in their life, which is kinda what I've been doing recently.
[00:34:09] Mia Tate: Right. And then while you're, so as you've been healing, and by the way, this show, one thing you touched on just a second ago is this show, it's movement in the sense of everything.
You know, we, we talk to dancers, but we also talk to people who use movement, you know, to heal, survive, or reimagine or just thrive. And I think, I think of your path and how you've done all of those through movement, not just through the dance part of your story that I learned from. And so I wonder in this time where you're healing again, learning to walk again, what, what's happening creatively?
What are you, what are you feeling? Coming from this time.
[00:34:53] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah. So, you know, one of the good ways to, [00:35:00] to put a kind of a framework around what I was doing just before my last surgery is, you know, I, I look at alternative body architecture, right? I've mm-hmm. I've pushed the limits of earth, physical reality of gravity with a spike prosthetic with tech fashion that, you know, really severely alters the body silhouette and did everything imaginable of what that looks like.
What that feels like. Yeah. What the boundaries are. Uh, I've taken my body to microgravity and I have done some zero gravity training, right? Mm-hmm. Where there's no gravity.
[00:35:42] Mia Tate: Oh,
[00:35:44] Viktoria Modesta: ability is an entirely new thing. My leg does not matter even slightly. And everything that you think about as a kid where you're just like, you know [00:36:00] mm-hmm.
No limitation comes true. Right?
[00:36:03] Mia Tate: Wow.
[00:36:05] Viktoria Modesta: That was like really leading up to my surgery. And so when my, when I hit the limit of, um, my, my residual limb, just, it just wasn't able to take any more pressure from my prosthetic anymore. So I opted for a totally brand new type of surgery where you implant the prosthetic straight into your bone.
So now when I, I have an implant coming out of my body that even with the slightest touch, I can feel the proprioception inside my whole leg.
[00:36:45] Mia Tate: Wow.
[00:36:49] Viktoria Modesta: And you know, it's like the Cinderella ha does not need her slipper for her story anymore, [00:37:00] right? Like I've always been, I've always been like defined by these objects, which, you know, I have a beautiful closet full of these amazing pieces, but now it's part of me and I am on a whole new journey.
Like what does it mean to have an artificial, um, body part sort of integrated into you? And it's, it's been very fascinating. So my kind of, my painful recovery has been mixed with a kind of a, you know, a creative quest because what does it all mean now? Yeah. And some very interesting happens. Things happened when I was in my darkest time where.
Uh, earlier this year I was told that I had to have more surgery 'cause my bones, uh, were not healing. So they needed some reinforcement. I actually turned to AI and I [00:38:00] started making images that define, like defined all biological constraints. I started yeah, like I was, 'cause I was, at the time I was like going to a hyperbaric chamber therapy mm-hmm.
And I was doing a spinal correction where like the hang you and like strap you. And so I just started making these images that kind of just resonated with how my body feels just so in pieces and like bent and warped and also mm-hmm. So I started making these images and I started animating those images to life and I was like, wow.
From my place of just patiently waiting in pain for this to pass. Yeah. I was able to visualize and kind of live vicariously through these very [00:39:00] abstract movements, um mm-hmm. Of this virtual me. Yeah. Just that I created, you know, and I have to say, I found it so therapeutic. I was just like, that's it, that's it.
I'm like, no boundaries, like, you know, my biological body, you know, the artificial part, everything is trying to like fuse and bond and my Yeah. You know, like, and I'm just here like once again wanting to be active while my body's static just, yeah. Just turned me straight back into like childhood. Right?
[00:39:40] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:39:40] Viktoria Modesta: And. And I was just, and I was like, I'm so lucky that now I have so many more creative tools, because there I was having, you know, 10 photo shoots in a day mm-hmm. In every kind of position, leg shape imaginable, just from the comfort of my [00:40:00] bed. Um, and you know, and, and I think that honestly it's, it's like the best use of that technology that I've seen to date.
Like, okay, so therapeutic.
[00:40:13] Mia Tate: It's beautiful just to completely take it out of anything and create something. But one thing you also have done during this time that I find extremely brave is you've been vulnerable and you've shared the process. And I see other people really respond to that, you know, because.
You balance, you have this great balance of what do I wanna create, what reality and that, and yet this very hu humanness to you that really speaks to people.
[00:40:47] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah. And I'm really glad that you point that out because, um, you know, the biggest, the biggest fear about futurism and artificial [00:41:00] anything for most people is that, you know, we are losing humanity.
We're losing the human essence. And my journey as this kind of, you know, bionic, enhanced body situation has been the opposite because you kind of start to strip away layers. You're like, okay, so if my body doesn't define me, who I am. Yeah. Right. Because if it did, I would just have to be like, well, I'm less than I'm disabled.
I should really just kind of watch it. But if you're like, well, I feel fine, so if my body doesn't define me who I am, then what does, and in my personal journey, it just pushed me further and further inwards to look at my, you know, to my [00:42:00] spirituality, to my inner world, into psychology, into thinking about, okay, like what does biology really mean?
There's this really wonderful concept that's called embodied cognition, and it talks about how the entire body is responsible for our intelligence.
[00:42:23] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:25] Viktoria Modesta: And I love that, you know? Yeah. Things like that. Like being able to go, go beyond, beyond the layers and
[00:42:34] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:42:35] Viktoria Modesta: It's, it's a mixture of play, but also getting to like the truth and getting to like some sort of core thing.
[00:42:45] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:42:45] Viktoria Modesta: And it's helped me tremendously. So, you know, I'm more, I'm more, um, advanced in my, like, human capacities and human [00:43:00] abilities Yeah. Than I was before this process started. Um, so I, I, I really hope that, you know, that helps people see past all the kind of fear that surrounds, um, newness. Right. And, and, and, mm-hmm.
The future. Right. Um. There are, there are so many wonderful applications of all kinds of technologies out there that are great and, and, and movement and body and your whole, everything like this. It's, it's a place of growth.
[00:43:39] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:43:39] Viktoria Modesta: Really.
[00:43:40] Mia Tate: It's moved you into this love of science too. Is that right?
[00:43:43] Viktoria Modesta: Yes.
[00:43:44] Mia Tate: Is that accurate?
[00:43:45] Viktoria Modesta: Yes.
[00:43:46] Mia Tate: And I mean, science now, so interwoven in spirituality, I mean, it's such a fun time.
[00:43:53] Viktoria Modesta: It is such a fun time. And, um, one [00:44:00] very kind of juxtaposition thing has happened earlier this year when I was going through this darker time of like going, oh my God, I can't believe I need to have another surgery. Like I did a, I did a keynote that, that was titled Biology's Not Destiny.
[00:44:17] Mia Tate: Mm.
[00:44:17] Viktoria Modesta: And here I was with my femur. Which has been distracted two inches. And my bone just had no intention of growing in that place at all.
[00:44:28] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:30] Viktoria Modesta: And I was like, okay. Does
[00:44:33] Mia Tate: not define
[00:44:35] Viktoria Modesta: no. You know? And so I did two things. One is throw myself into the AI creative work and be like, okay. I'm like, I'm going to express my movement through this technology because it really just mm-hmm.
Makes me feel alive. Mm-hmm. And then on the other hand, um, I, um, for several years [00:45:00] now, I've been going to the, um, to the Vipasana 10 day silent meditation retreats. Mm-hmm. And it was so, it kind of like dawned on me that I was like, here I am practicing the most advanced. Meditation technique from 5,000 years ago.
[00:45:20] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:45:20] Viktoria Modesta: And at the same time, I'm using the latest AI technology of how to express this movement that I feel in me. You know? And, and I really truly think that like ancient wisdom and future innovation is where they meet, is like, there's something magical there.
[00:45:48] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:45:48] Viktoria Modesta: You know, I think, I think like the ana meditation technique is completely all about embodiment.
It's, there is [00:46:00] nothing other than your body and nature and natural forces that happen within you. So that has also been. Massive. To me it's, it's, it's bringing awareness into the most subtlest things that happen within you. Um
[00:46:20] Mia Tate: Mm.
[00:46:21] Viktoria Modesta: So it's, you know, this, this journey of becoming more self-aware and ultimately having a better relationship with yourself is
[00:46:34] Mia Tate: mm-hmm.
[00:46:35] Viktoria Modesta: Complex and I feel like it, it never ends.
[00:46:40] Mia Tate: That's the curiosity aspect. Right. Hopefully it's just part of the process. It just keeps evolving, growing into something new. Yeah. But maybe with an ease. Right. With all this medi, you know, as you've gone into this meditation and you've kind of used AI to completely [00:47:00] transform out of your given body to create something new, you know, it, there's, when you.
Learn to kind of separate yourself from it. There is, um, an ease, you know, that seems to follow that.
[00:47:16] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah, yeah, definitely. And, um, I think that, um, one of the most powerful things that anyone out there can benefit from is to learn to live with a full range of feelings and emotions and sensations
[00:47:38] Mia Tate: Hmm.
[00:47:38] Viktoria Modesta: Within themselves. Um, I think that that's been the most helpful thing for me is to, you know, enjoy when things, when your body's rushing with endorphins and you're happy and, you know, you feel, uh, like a cloud nine, but at the same time. When, [00:48:00] you know, when you're overwhelmed by very strong, um, difficult sensations and emotions.
Mm-hmm. It's, there's no need to just rush out of that. Yeah. There's no need to fix it right away. Um, it always teaches you something and
[00:48:17] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:48:19] Viktoria Modesta: Um, you know, you're alive.
[00:48:22] Mia Tate: Yeah. I mean, for me, when I went through a hard time and I was able to sit in it, I would just keep thinking of the lotus growing outta the mud.
It was like a superpower, you know? It felt like a superpower.
[00:48:34] Viktoria Modesta: It is. It's, it's, it's, it's resilience, you know? And, and that's why, you know, you approach a new movement or a new exercise and it feels hard, and then you ache and then you come back to it and you feel stronger, you know? And it's, it's, yeah. It's, it's really, it's really the same.
[00:48:56] Mia Tate: Well, I keep hearing words. From you that, [00:49:00] um, gratitude, so lucky. I mean, you're, you're just stunning and you, it's, but it's, it's deep stunning, and it's this gratitude, you, you lead from just with so much heart. It's really beautiful to witness.
[00:49:19] Viktoria Modesta: Oh, I'm, I'm glad, I'm glad that it's, uh, it's projecting outwards.
[00:49:26] Mia Tate: It's definitely projecting
[00:49:27] Viktoria Modesta: outwards. Yeah. Yeah. No, I, I, I, no, I really, I really am. And I, and, and, and I think that, again, like, I think cultivating, cultivating gratitude is like, and there is, there is something so powerful there, you know, and, and, and I think also that's why like I, you know, a lot of the self-awareness and mindfulness practices.
Led me eventually to a place where [00:50:00] it turns, like once you reach a certain level of healing yourself, you kind, it kind of like turns outwards.
[00:50:09] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:50:10] Viktoria Modesta: And, and you kind of just wanna go over to people and things and just sprinkle some magic dust on it, you know, and kind of just be like, you know, you just have to look at it differently or, you know, you can just, you know, you can just approach it from a slightly different perspective or, you know, just it's be a little bit patient and like, things change.
It's, I don't know. It's, it's hard to explain, but Yeah. It's, um,
[00:50:39] Mia Tate: magic
[00:50:39] Viktoria Modesta: dust. It is magic dust.
[00:50:42] Mia Tate: Yeah. It is magic dust.
[00:50:44] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah.
[00:50:44] Mia Tate: Um, so what now what is, is there something, what's, what's something, where do you find yourself headed now?
[00:50:53] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah, that's a really good point. Um. So I, I think [00:51:00] one of the, the, it's definitely this new body has definitely been, you know, I've taken pause from performance at the moment.
Mm-hmm. And so I am exploring a lot of new practices, a lot of new creative practices, but also there's been so much focus on me as a kind of a, the superhero and, and a kind of like very individual that I am looking at all the different ways of how I can really spread this effect somehow out onto the world.
So, um, just last week, you know, I, I flew to Michigan to the re, there's like a rehabilitation center there that. Um, has some latest tech as, as it pertains to my new implant. Mm-hmm. So I went there [00:52:00] and I stayed there for a week and before you know it, we were doing an interview and I was visiting all of their workshops and, and I was like, right.
I'm like, you know, it's just, you know, I think just kind of connecting a little bit with the outside world is, um, it's, it's, it's very compelling when you feel like you can make a difference.
[00:52:27] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:52:28] Viktoria Modesta: Like it's,
[00:52:29] Mia Tate: yeah.
[00:52:29] Viktoria Modesta: Um, you know, so, um, I don't know, but, you know, I could, I conclude, like just earlier this year, I, I made a professional deck of my work and I was like, let's frame this, um, um, experiments with the body and identity in Space, earth and Metaverse.
I was like, all right,
[00:52:57] Mia Tate: now you can gather the people and take 'em with you. [00:53:00]
[00:53:00] Viktoria Modesta: Right? I'm like, let's just, let's just, let's just, let's just chew on that and let's just acknowledge that that is where I've pushed the body and identity. Like, that's, that's the range of experiments that we've covered so far, you know?
Um. And I just really hope, like I have this gut feeling, like all this investigation and all of this work.
[00:53:28] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:53:28] Viktoria Modesta: It's like, I think it's going somewhere. It's, it's, yeah. It's, uh, you know, for me, the more I do it, the easier it is, the less, um, like I just feel lighter somehow to, there's, to just understand like, what does it all mean?
You know, what, what are, what are all of these different challenges and limitations and, and, and things like, what does it all mean? So, I don't know. I'm, I'm also hoping that at some [00:54:00] point in the next five years, I might either write a book or do a PhD or something, you know, but we're not there yet. I feel like, I feel like the next step is definitely more just connecting with people and just being able to share some, some of my best practices with the world a little bit more.
[00:54:19] Mia Tate: That sounds amazing. I think you should definitely share this knowledge and this light and, um, all that you've learned. Um, they say that is the, you know, part of the path is, you know, we get it. We're all about ourselves, and then we kind of can separate from ourselves and then we run, we can rise, and then it's about other people and connection.
I mean, you're in a place that is inspiring for a lot of people to hear,
[00:54:51] Viktoria Modesta: you know, it's a really special time where it's like [00:55:00] you keep going and you feel like sharing and caring about mm-hmm. Other people in the world takes away from you and then one day you just feel that it's the other way around.
[00:55:12] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:55:14] Viktoria Modesta: Big picture. It's no longer like draining you that it's actually giving you life and you're kind of like, wow, okay. You know?
[00:55:21] Mia Tate: Oh, I love that. I noticed. Um, mm-hmm. You use the breaking chain emoji, so a lot. And what does breaking the chains mean to you?
[00:55:31] Viktoria Modesta: Oh, oh, yeah. I did have a really whole period of that, didn't I?
Yeah.
[00:55:39] Mia Tate: Am I going too far back?
[00:55:41] Viktoria Modesta: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, no, no. But it's, it's actually like, you know what? It's, it's that little, it's that little hardness. It's that it's, it's less about breaking the chain, it's more about like, and let's just really,
[00:55:58] Mia Tate: yeah.
[00:55:58] Viktoria Modesta: Just, [00:56:00]
[00:56:00] Mia Tate: yeah. Yeah. I know exactly
[00:56:01] Viktoria Modesta: what you drive the point.
Just drive, drive the point, you know.
[00:56:07] Mia Tate: And then one last question before we get to your YI dance, uh, interpretation. Um, I ask guests, so if you're, you know, if we rise up, we kind of go the bird's eye view. We just keep going up and up past the now, past us, past this interview, of course, all the stuff. Um, what is a universal truth for you?
[00:56:31] Viktoria Modesta: Oh, oh my God. You know, I've had a couple of, uh, near death experiences and I, I at one point had this feeling of like,
of like, wow, like [00:57:00] right now we are in this body. We're in this reality. And I just had this really strong feeling like actually you may, is exist beyond the physical body at one time.
[00:57:20] Mia Tate: Mm-hmm.
[00:57:22] Viktoria Modesta: And I used to just search for all kinds of altered states and things, and I really wanted, and I just had this feeling like, I'm like, no.
I'm like, enjoy this time right now in this body. This is why I don't believe in like neural lynx or whatever it is. Mm-hmm. I'm like, you have this reality right now. You have this body, you have this vehicle, you have this unique experience. Just be in it. Like, just stay in the body. Like [00:58:00] I'm really just all about that.
[00:58:05] Mia Tate: Yeah.
[00:58:05] Viktoria Modesta: And, and, and, and I feel like. Everywhere you look, there's this constant, uh, pool away from, you know, just living in your mind and living on some computer thing or something. And it's just like, did not leave the body behind. Like, this is like making use of this whole situation. It's like what it's about.
Yeah. I don't know if that makes sense to anyone.
[00:58:30] Mia Tate: That makes sense to me. Yeah. So, um, I have loved talking to you so much. I think you are. Oh, it's been
[00:58:38] Viktoria Modesta: great.
[00:58:39] Mia Tate: Magnificent, magnificent. I can't wait to see all that. You create all that you, you know, connect with people. To do in your next chapter. Yes. Write a book.
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[01:00:03] Viktoria Modesta: soul.
[01:00:05] Mia Tate: At the end of the podcast, we do have the letter Why I Dance. And now you have a poem you wanna read for?
Yes. Your Why I dance letter. Tell me about why you chose this poem.
[01:00:18] Viktoria Modesta: Oh my God, that poem just, um, I came across it like maybe five months ago or something like that and, and I actually, actually came about when I was, um, in my time of needing another surgery and. I think when I read it, it just gave me goosebumps.
It's just this, it just really EnCap like encapsulates the process of how, you know, I drop it and I'm living with the, the body and all of its sensations, and then [01:01:00] things overwhelm me, and then I move back and I reflect and I look back on myself. And, uh, there's a, you know, a, a moment where he talks about, you know, um, legs of a shape, of a compass circle.
And I just always think of the prototype video and I don't know, I, I get very like, bombarded with visuals of movement whenever I read that poem. Um. It kind of reminds me of that, uh, everything everywhere, all at once. Movie where I just kind of get bombarded with different images. Whenever I read that poem, the man watching knows himself to be a man who can gather up the fragments of his life as though on legs of a compass that rise up from the ground at once.
He is above the swirling, darkened thoughts that tried to bind him to their bitter, tangled roots. He is already looking beyond them, but the thing he's watching [01:02:00] is himself. He watches not as if in a mirror, but as if from afar, from a place where time is a circle and the whole of it can be contained in a single moment where the mind fixing its gaze, changing that moment into something of another quality.
Light he watches, yet he waits. The waiting itself is a kind of stillness, and stillness is a form of rising.
[01:02:35] Mia Tate: That was, that was perfect. Victoria. Thank you so much.
[01:02:42] Viktoria Modesta: It's my pleasure. I'm really glad that we made it. Made it work.